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 Post subject: The sky is falling the sky is falling!
PostPosted: 090331 07:03 
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Well, more like the sea is rising...

...Or not

Yes, the article's title is definitely sensationalist, although you'll notice lurking at the end why they threw in "The Greatest Lie Ever Told". It's because it's the name of the Dr.'s booklet. orz

Now, ignoring that hidden option of buying his booklet, the article is certainly interesting. What struck me the most was the following:
"The reason why Dr Mörner, formerly a Stockholm professor, is so certain that these claims about sea level rise are 100 per cent wrong is that they are all based on computer model predictions, whereas his findings are based on 'going into the field to observe what is actually happening in the real world'."

and this:
"One of his most shocking discoveries was why the IPCC has been able to show sea levels rising by 2.3mm a year. Until 2003, even its own satellite-based evidence showed no upward trend. But suddenly the graph tilted upwards because the IPCC's favoured experts had drawn on the finding of a single tide-gauge in Hong Kong harbour showing a 2.3mm rise. The entire global sea-level projection was then adjusted upwards by a 'corrective factor' of 2.3mm, because, as the IPCC scientists admitted, they 'needed to show a trend'."

To the first, I can see where the guy's coming from. I mean, if I put myself into the shoes of a person who gets out and actually sees the very thing you are modeling, studying, and theorizing about, I can understand why he said this. But, of course, seeing something in person is good for only realtime. We obviously cannot travel into the future to observe, so we try to model stuff using what we have observed in realtime and recorded.

In a situation like this, I'm generally going to side with the Dr.'s opinion instead of the modelers. If the modelers say "The oceans are rising, they're definitely rising, rising for sure, uh-huh, yup, rising"... and then someone goes out and looks and says "Hey, they're still the same"... I'm logically going to say that experimental evidence wins.

To the second, I'm kind of speechless. Is it correct? If so, it kind of shocks me on a fundamental level. I mean, in the sciences, we were taught how to experiment and rigorously test things so that we can come to a logical, explainable conclusion, supported by our data. We wrote papers and did lab tests and had to defend our conclusions when we were graded. To produce a projection or model with as much importance as sea level analysis on a single data point? Yes, it's incredibly naive to assume science and research are not buffeted and bullied into specific outcomes by bureaucracy, money, deadlines, egos, and greed, but where are we going wrong? With each generation of "scientists", at what point are we saying "You know what, I'm going to stop doing things the way I know is proper"? I don't get it.

Of course, we all know this entire global warming situation, or as I like to call it (along with Panda I think) "Grobal Worming", is so viciously fought over. Almost everyone's heard one side say this and the other side say that, and both sides have their smarty-pants "scientists" to back it up, and the models CLEARLY say this, and CLEARLY say that... ugh. It's ridiculous. Now if you're smart, you realize that hidden in the bullshit "I love the Earth let's save it" idea to tackle this Grobal Worming "problem" lies the potential to make certain people and businesses very fucking rich. And, you also realize that this massive thing we call Earth, and that much more massive thing we call the Sun, and this even biggerer more massiverer thing we call the Universe, undergo cycles and changes and whatnot on a grand scale, all without little old mankind's help! Can you see where I'm going with this? :lol:

Now, let me make it clear: To assume that mankind has NO effect on Earth is folly. But, to doom and gloom based on your "models", and even worse, to doom and gloom after "correction factoring" your "models" based on a single data point on the entire fucking Earth... come now. The entire Grobal Worming idea fucking reeks. It's a smelly stinky reek that has popped into existence lately. In my opinion, this entire Grobal Worming/"Green" bullshit that's sweeping the world is a FAD. Let's be smart enough to realize that we DO need to start making smarter choices here and there, but that this radical revolution is just a sensationalist FAD that SELLS.

And seeing articles that help fight that fad are a breath of fresh air. Your thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: The sky is falling the sky is falling!
PostPosted: 090331 09:16 
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Kashi wrote:
Now if you're smart, you realize that hidden in the bullshit "I love the Earth let's save it" idea to tackle this Grobal Worming "problem" lies the potential to make certain people and businesses very fucking rich. And, you also realize that this massive thing we call Earth, and that much more massive thing we call the Sun, and this even biggerer more massiverer thing we call the Universe, undergo cycles and changes and whatnot on a grand scale, all without little old mankind's help!

In my opinion, this entire Grobal Worming/"Green" bullshit that's sweeping the world is a FAD. Let's be smart enough to realize that we DO need to start making smarter choices here and there, but that this radical revolution is just a sensationalist FAD that SELLS.

I actually think your opinions are pretty reasonable here. :shock: I saw a King of the Hill episode not too long ago about the whole "going Green" thing, and I think it did an interesting job of presenting the "faddish" aspect of the trend. I think it's an inherently good thing to respect the environment, and be mindful of the "footprint" we leave, and all this talk of "apocalypse" is quite unnecessary, *especially* if it's more fiction than fact. Mankind is fragile, and the Universe is strong. We should avoid making obviously bad decisions (like nuclear winter), but if the Universe decides to swallow us on a whim, well, that'll be all she wrote.

Quote:
...the apocalypse conjured up by Al Gore and Co could not possibly come about.

Phew, I guess we don't have to worry about Manbearpig anymore. :D

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