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 Post subject: Re: HIV in DC, other things...
PostPosted: 090327 14:07 
Legendary Overfiend
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Kashi wrote:
It is apparent any more I write won't convince you

That's a relief. At least you're not completely oblivious.

Kashi wrote:
We may very well hit the post length limit. :shock:

Not to derail your point here, but I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't check. I performed a word count on my previous lengthy post, which apparently contains around 24-25,000 characters (with spaces) - which is less than half the posted limit of 60000 characters. Still, it was nine pages long...

Kashi wrote:
But it will rapidly become your business when he's choking you. :lol:

What, are you calling me a bitch? :mad: Actually, I'm kind of flattered. :3eyes:

Kashi wrote:
I just hit him back up when I get out and say "Hey man, sorry about missing the call, I was droppin a D." Usually the other person is perfectly fine with it.

I can only imagine the type of people you regularly talk to. In my case, I would not be perfectly fine, as I'd rather not hear about what you were dropping... :|

Kashi wrote:
I did not mean to imply that you should transform overnight into a posting machine. I merely said you should chime in now and then. Baby steps, man. A well thought out post here, a well thought out post there...

How is this different from my current behavior? If you expect me to gradually up the posting, then essentially you're asking me to post when I'm not committed to posting. Gee, that sounds like tons of fun.

Kashi wrote:
First off, you shouldn't be looking for stable girlfriends in bars. Not the place.

You don't need to worry about that. :D :thumbsup:

Kashi wrote:
if you are going to approach girls, you get girls that are either alone or in small groups. You don't approach girls with a crowd of guys unless you're an AMOG (alpha male of the group) or an AMOG-destroyer. It's also less efficient; too much work.

Oh great, sounds like a mating special on the Discovery channel. Every interesting girl I've found so far - well, except one - has been taken. The good ones are always taken. It's the law of supply and demand. An insufficient supply is outstripped by demand.

Kashi wrote:
Maybe it's because it's Panda and I and you know us, but you seemed pretty comfortable when we were over. You seemed pretty comfortable that time I visited and you, Doug, and I caught a movie.

Of course, I'm gonna be generally happy and amiable with friends over. That's beside the point. It's not that I lose control and freak out, it's more of a subtle thing. Even with Scott hanging out, playing video games and stuff, even when I have no complaints and am having a good time, I still at times feel slightly uncomfortable because it's like I've lost my "retreat". I'd be surprised if you noticed it, because it is my understanding that I do a pretty expert job of hiding/masking my concerns and uncertainties in everyday situations.

Kashi wrote:
Analyze less. Do more.

I think you should analyze more, and do less. :P This is just the way I am. If there are square people and circle people, living on a planet with a surface marked by circular holes - such that the circular people frequently fall and die, while the square people are impervious to the holes, you can't just ask a circle person to start being more square. The fundamental fallacy you, and even Scott, have been making in trying to give me advice, is that you assume I'm like you, and everybody else. I'm not. The same solutions do not apply.

Kashi wrote:
You claim that you can't simply switch it off, but wouldn't it be amazing if you tried and found that you actually could? I would think of all people in this group you would be eager to step up to the challenge.

You think I haven't spent the majority of my life looking for that switch? Yet it still eludes me.

Kashi wrote:
I would think, if anything, the opposite: professionals are expected to be superhuman. ... I have yet to find an employer that wants a machine.

Ironically, the first thing I thought of based on your description of superhuman-ness was, "oh, you mean a machine?"

Kashi wrote:
An extreme (and somewhat stupid) example:

Yeah, this example doesn't do much for me, because we're talking about murder here, not just image.

Kashi wrote:
Let's try a more realistic example. Let's say your band blows up. You hire some PR people. Let's say you don't check up on them and they're extremely (and more importantly explicitly) bigoted. Let's say they're out drinking and bragging about how they work for your band. Then the conversation shifts and suddenly they're spewing all their bigoted crap. Anyone nearby is going to associate their bigotry with your band. You don't approve of it, of course, but the damage is already done.

It bugs me that people wouldn't be smart enough to dissociate those guys' drunken comments from my own public image. I think people should be accountable for their own behavior and not the behavior of the people they associate with. PR is a deceptive game anyway. Admittedly, I fall victim to it sometimes, but that doesn't change the fact that I think it's deceptive.

Kashi wrote:
If you wish for there to be no dichotomy but X or Y working in a position leans naturally towards immature, they don't get your business, so of course they're going to shelve the immaturity. Furthermore, and I know you would counter-argue this, to simply say "Well don't hire immature people" assumes that there are enough "mature" people to put into every position. This is naivete at its extreme. Again, when given a choice of being themselves or getting your business, just about any sane business-person is going to take your business any day. You have just forced someone to not be themselves!

Am I not allowed to be outraged by the grossities of practicality? I'm not saying my system (whatever it is, exactly) is practical in this world. In fact, the whole point is that there are too many immature people in this world, and that's exactly why it won't work. I want there to be more people like me. Call it a whining copout, but look, I got unlucky. Born into the wrong space and time. If the world worked my way, can you say that you wouldn't whine and would instead happily conform to my rules? I'd be very interested in your answer to this question.

Kashi wrote:
Why do you consider someone that has set aside their immaturity to provide high-quality service to be deceptive, and why do you then tag that deception with (for lack of a better phrase) a large negative value? Is there not something to be said for the person that can relax, have fun, and act immature around their buddies yet realize there's a time for seriousness (and then apply that maturity when the time calls for it)? Because what I'm reading that you're writing tells me that you want the world to be uptight assholes who can't loosen up...

Look, I don't think we're arguing the same thing here. I'm willing to believe it's the fault of my not being clear enough on the subject. The one thing I'm sure of is that everytime I try to approach the corporate/business/professional world with the hope of finding some kind of a foothold, I am mercilessly inundated with strange practices that are not only completely unfamiliar to me, but are actually offensive to my sensibilities. Whatever *that* is, *that's* the "professionalism" that I'm railing about. It has little to do with actually being mature or immature.

Kashi wrote:
When I get jazzed up, I not only look good but feel like a million bucks, and I feel just fine wearing those clothes. I impress those I'm with and I'm comfortable. Pretty win-win to me.

Fine. That's great. I wouldn't take that away from you. But when I get jazzed up, I think my looks are questionable (because my sense of style is quite different from the norm), and I feel pretty miserable because the clothes are incredibly uncomfortable for me. Don't even get me started on wearing a tie. So is it fair to me that people accept the "jazzed up" business model? This is just another case where my own unique tastes put me at a disadvantage.

Kashi wrote:
Some professions have an image to go along with their profession. Rockers look like rockers. Bankers look stuffy and expensive. Construction guys look like they've been building all day. Scientists look clean and sterile. And, office jobs look well-groomed and neat. Why is this a problem?

Fine, I'm more than happy to go through my life looking like a rocker. That much is a reassurance. It becomes a problem when I can't make a living off of the lifestyle that suits me. If I want a chance at another avenue, I have to force myself to become someone else. Here's the real problem - I like being me and doing what I do and not conforming my attitude to forms that I don't understand. But the only way that anybody is willing to accept me is if I start acting like them, or everybody else. I've gone through my life being me, and nobody wants anything to do with me. But I'm not willing to be anybody else. It's lose-lose.

Kashi wrote:
Plus I would probably add that in corporate culture today, fashion is changing so that indeed, you do not have to suit it up for work. A lot of places now are allowing folks to get more casual.

I can only support this trend.

Kashi wrote:
zharth wrote:
I can't really think of an argument that you won't most likely turn upside-down and proceed to use against me. :?

So I autowin? :lol:

You're more than welcome to think that, if you prefer. I, however, consider it an autofail on your part. :badgrin:

Kashi wrote:
you cannot possibly expect the stores to alter their schedules around your whims.

I do indeed expect them to do just that. And I don't see why they shouldn't. If they need more people to work the night shift, then hire me already.

Kashi wrote:
I mean being tired sucks, but you make it seem earth-shattering and world-ending. As much as you might want to make it seem, it truly will not kill you...

I know that it (most likely) will not kill me, but you're really underestimating the effect sleep deprivation has on me. I've already said that I'm a sensitive person. Should I be faulted for that? Just because I can't bear the pain of a thousand miseries and still push through to the endgoal? Invent a drug that makes me oblivious to pain/discomfort, and I'll happily change my ways. Until then, I simply cannot ignore these feelings that do very much seem earth-shattering and world-ending to me.

Kashi wrote:
Perhaps we will never agree on it, but the mere fact that you say that you enjoy the night because you don't have to be seen so that people will not judge you implies that people are judging you based on them seeing you.

Here's the distinction, once again. It's not that I enjoy the night because I don't have to be seen, therefore indicating that people will not judge me. I enjoy the night because there are less people around, therefore there are less objects to remind me of the idea of being judged. I honestly do not think anybody is judging me (more than what is normal). It's the thought of the process of judging itself that bugs me, regardless of whether or not it's occurring. Truthfully, even when I'm completely alone, I still feel it. But it gets worse the more people are around. Once again, not because I actually think they are judging me, but simply because they represent the potential for the activation of the process of judging - yet again, the thought of which is worse than the process itself.

Kashi wrote:
This is further supported by the fact that you feel comfortable and calm when you are by yourself.

Case in point, I do feel better when I'm away from people, where it's easier to forget that such a thing as "people" exists, but that doesn't mean I'm invincible in those cases. And in fact, there are situations, when my mind starts to wander, or if something is weighing particularly heavy on my mind, where the symptoms are just as bad or worse than being stuck in the middle of a crowd.

It's complicated, and not a really clear distinction, so I'm not surprised at your misinterpretation.

Kashi wrote:
I hope I laid out my logic clearly enough. Do you see what I'm getting at?

I think I see exactly what you're getting at, which isn't the same thing I've been getting at. So I turn the question back at you.

Kashi wrote:
You can't deny that there are hordes of scrubby Pagans and Wiccans making shit up to attract members of the other sex, make money, or just try to fit into a group any more than I can deny the mega-churches, money-leeching fake pastors in some of those congregations, and extremely intolerant, fake people that follow them.

Then why should I be any less proud of associating myself with paganism than you do with Christianity? If there are fake, opportunistic, zealous, or whatever, pagans, then I have nothing to do with them. I still think the pagan "culture" has a lot more to offer me than the Abrahamic ones. If there's a lot to hate, it turns out there's also a lot more to love. To put it quite bluntly, this isn't about people and their practical shortcomings, it's about idealistic belief systems.

Kashi wrote:
I'm pretty sure that if Panda and I could temporarily turn ourselves into anime heroes, pop into your room, and give you the exact same talk (which in all likelihood would then probably work on you), we would. But, we cannot, so this is the best you're going to get.

That won't work unless you're anime heroines. :P

Scott wrote:
Sometimes a hammer is a hammer and a nail is a nail.

And sometimes a hammer just isn't a nail, no matter how hard you want to believe it is. :nod:

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 Post subject: Re: HIV in DC, other things...
PostPosted: 090328 19:08 
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zharth wrote:
Call it a whining copout, but look, I got unlucky. Born into the wrong space and time. If the world worked my way, can you say that you wouldn't whine and would instead happily conform to my rules? I'd be very interested in your answer to this question.

Of course I would probably whine (who wouldn't?). Of course I would probably wish the world magically revolved around me (who doesn't have that wistful thinking every now and then?). This is the part you want to hear.

But... I would also wake the hell up at some point. I would realize that imprisoning myself via physical and mental isolation with a refusal to try and adapt is not the way to live, man. This is the part you don't want to hear.

zharth wrote:
So is it fair to me that people accept the "jazzed up" business model? This is just another case where my own unique tastes put me at a disadvantage.

Life's not fair. *shrug* People struggle with this all the time. I know I do. :?

zharth wrote:
Fine, I'm more than happy to go through my life looking like a rocker. If I want a chance at another avenue, I have to force myself to become someone else.

Dressing in some different clothes is not being forced to be someone else. You will never agree, but it's really just some clothes. You're still Zep.

zharth wrote:
Here's the real problem - I like being me and doing what I do and not conforming my attitude to forms that I don't understand.

If you're not willing to bend at all, you will break.

zharth wrote:
...nobody wants anything to do with me.

This is wholly untrue and you know it.

zharth wrote:
I do indeed expect them to do just that. And I don't see why they shouldn't. If they need more people to work the night shift, then hire me already.

That is completely unreasonable. And as for the night shift, I'm pretty sure someone somewhere could use a guy on night shift. Have you looked?

zharth wrote:
Just because I can't bear the pain of a thousand miseries

This is unnecessarily dramatic.

zharth wrote:
It's complicated, and not a really clear distinction...

That's for sure. :?

zharth wrote:
If there's a lot to hate, it turns out there's also a lot more to love.

I find this extremely ironic... If you truly believe that you wouldn't blindly trash religions like you do, because you're certainly not making any effort to find anything to love about em. Did you just say this because it sounds good?

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 Post subject: Re: HIV in DC, other things...
PostPosted: 090329 11:06 
Legendary Overfiend
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Kashi wrote:
But... I would also wake the hell up at some point. I would realize that imprisoning myself via physical and mental isolation with a refusal to try and adapt is not the way to live, man. This is the part you don't want to hear.

Easy for you to *say*. What if you were abducted by space aliens and were expected to live without air? Good luck adapting then.

Kashi wrote:
zharth wrote:
...nobody wants anything to do with me.

This is wholly untrue and you know it.

My point here was that I don't seem to be making anything out of life just by being myself. In order to make it, it seems I have to be someone else. This bothers me. Why can't people want me for who I am, instead of asking me to be like everyone else?

Kashi wrote:
zharth wrote:
Just because I can't bear the pain of a thousand miseries

This is unnecessarily dramatic.

This is what people have been telling me all my life. This is one of those things that makes me different. Just because you don't feel it like that, doesn't mean that I don't either, and that when I say I do, I'm just whining.

Kashi wrote:
I find this extremely ironic... If you truly believe that you wouldn't blindly trash religions like you do, because you're certainly not making any effort to find anything to love about em. Did you just say this because it sounds good?

:? Do I blindly trash religions? I think my trashing is at the very least rudimentarily founded with knowledge. I don't doubt that I could find something to love about every religion. Even the "evil" ones. Some of them come off as more destructive to my ideals than others, either in practice or in theory. In my personal life, the fundamental tenets of paganism, as I understand them in a broad and general sense, do a lot more for me than those of Christianity.

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